Pages

Friday, 20 April 2012

Gender: Whither Now?

As ever, your comments are welcomed, coherence is not gauranteed, and ideas are likely to change, evolve, and infuriate. Please bear with me as I work this all out.






Yesterday I blogged a post I've written as a submission for the Good Men Project, on Gender and how my religious upbringing has affected my views on Gender roles, issues, and identities. I thoroughly enjoyed the challenging comment from a friend, who blogs here at Sanity's Cove, which sparked the writing of this post:


"It reads like you are using vagueness as a means of trying to appear polite and ramblings about open-mindedness and grace as an apology for the little you actually do say on your declared subject of choice.

Tell me what you really think about gender and this time be balls-out Creedy"


Its always nice to get something like this - it means someone, somewhere, is reading. It's also worth noting that the post linked to above is aimed at a secular, non-descript website audience - whereas this blog is predominantly open about its Christian content, though of course anyone of any faith or none is welcome to read and join in!

And, as blogging supposed to be a form of social media, a form of interaction, part of a discussion, it seemed to reasonable to respond. So here is a response.

My views on Gender - specifically relating to roles and otherwise in the Church have been undergoing something of an overhaul in recent years. Largely due to studying theology - but also due to rediscovering John Calvin and trying to echo his high view of Scripture in my own life, which I find to be intellectually engaging and spiritually refreshing. A while back now I wrote a post "Where Next?", in which I explored where I am now - I recieved a storm of comments, for my blog at least, and this lead to all sorts of fruitful new connections, resources, and reading.

I've been reading onwards and inwards on this issue for a while. I particularly enjoyed two books, that in different ways, challenged my personal assumptions. I think anyone seriously thinking about this area should read "Slaves, Women and Homosexuals" by William Webb, and "How I Changed my Mind" by Alan Johnson, which is a series of interviews with prominent Evangelical leaders who hold a range of egalitarian viewpoints. I'm still impressed by Wayne Grudem's "Evangelical Feminism and Biblical Truth: An Analysis of 114 Disputed Questions", but am also warming to Rich Nathan's approach. There are a lot of well written, intellectually fulfilling positions and resources out there - that represents just a snapshot of what I've read, and a tiny pinprick of what's out there.

I think a note of reason needs to be sounded. This is a multi-faceted issue. One about leadership - but also relating to each other. It is a fundamental tenet of Christianity that, in Christ, there is no male or female (or slave nor free), but what that means practically (Rather than in terms of worth, spiritual equality, etc) is hugely disputed. I still find great merit in a number of simple maxims;

"Equal but different"

I firmly believe that men and women are equal - but that they are also different. That means, in some peoples eyes, I uphold inequality. I disagree - men and women are of equal worth, but perform different tasks. One thing I have been challenged about in my occasional reading of feminist thought and theology is that in parenting, mother and father are equally valid, and yet different. With various biblical allusions to the 'motherhood' of God, we need to be careful about what we mean when we say that God is our Father - he is NOT our Mother, but insofar as his image is accurately represented in humanity, then there are elements we might traditionally associate with feminity and motherhood, inherent in God's character. I believe that this simple maxim translates into the sphere of church leadership differently than in the secular world - because the Church is different.

"My daughters can be anything but fathers, husbands, and elders"

This quote, from one of my favourite pastors, who is a Godly bible teacher and a wonderful father and husband, sums up my approach. I think redefining words is dangerous - look at the recent/still happening furore over marriage in the UK - and I think that father and husband are two male-only roles - just as mother and wife are female-only roles. I would go out on a limb and say that eldership (the NT church leaders) is restricted to those who are men. That is NOT because men are better - they aren't, and it is NOT because women can't do it - but because, I believe, that is what God makes clear in his word. I disagree with some of those who might be natural allies in that I believe women can be pastors (but not elders)/vicars in their denomination, and preach, teach and perform leadership roles in the church - but the 'office' of elder is different. 

So your ecclesiology has a HUGE bearing on gender roles in the church. As someone who thinks that an elder-lead church model is ideal - whilst in communication/communion with other churches - I would say that that eldership is to be male only - but that those men SHOULD share that part of their lives with their wives, so that the wisdom of women can be added into the equation. Not as elders, but as helpers. Not as subordinate drones, but as equal, valid, intelligent, invaluable individual contributions.

What about the home?

There is one maxim that I hope to fulfil in my own impending marriage, and think is right at the heart of Gospel living. 

"submit to one another out of reverence for Christ"

This, in marital terms, is mutual submission. It's an upopular idea. The idea that the BEST way to lead your wife, as a man, is to die to your self and put her first, is deeply counter-cultural. But its what Jesus did for the church. Ephesians 5 - often misinterpreted, hence my post "Mind the Gap" emphasises the submission that is necessary for marriage. But this is not mindless, meek, vacuous relationship. The husband is called to love - as a total, radical thing - his wife, Paul makes it very  clear that this is not lording it over one's wife but instead a total love that is far beyond anything the world is used to. I'm still working out, praying about, and thinking about what this will mean for my fiancee and I. I'm excited to see what will happen.

Those are some of my thoughts on Gender. I believe there are two genders - male and female - but that the Church MUST have space for engagement with those who are the exceptions to that rule. The Church must love transgender people. Or people who are unsure about their gender identity. Ultimately, identity is not to be found in our gender (or sexuality, or religion, or race, or creed, or colour, or class, or sex, or job) but in how we relate to Jesus. Fundamentally there are two kinds of people. Those who submit to Jesus and let everything else flow from that, and those who don't. Everything else is a label that distracts from Jesus being first in our life. 

As ever, your comments are welcomed, coherence is not gauranteed, and ideas are likely to change, evolve, and infuriate. Please bear with me as I work this all out.

17 comments:

  1. Hey :) Interesting read again - keep the thoughts coming. Just picking up a little on the reference of parenting - that mother and father are equally valid but different - does this different limit the role each parent fulfills? Does the mother always have to be the more nurturing? The father the disciplinarian? (just examples) - I guess my thoughts are that the parental role shouldn't be limited to gender, but should be agreed upon using natural giftings and characteristics of the individuals. This is how I see church leadership as well. On the issue of eldership - I was in a conversation a while ago, in which a wife of an elder said - I am as involved in the decisions etc as my husband - I just don't have the title - this may well work ok for some - but I don't think it is fair. If a church recognises the wisdom and influence of a woman in this context - they should have the guts to give them the same title as their husband - either that - or NOT encourage the elders to discuss issues with their wives. Inconsistency isn't acceptable here (in my humble opinion)
    Jo :)

    ReplyDelete
  2. Better:-)

    Now I know what you think on the subject.

    My interest in how these issues play out tends to be more focused on the home than in church leadership (which is important to). So, what are the qualities in a woman which make her her uniquely qualified to be a mother/wife as opposed to a man? And visa-versa. You said they are differen, but how? How should femininity feel (metaphoricaly speaking) different to masculinity?

    ReplyDelete
  3. Please elaborate on why "the 'office' of elder is different" - not sure I see the logic here with women being allowed to be a pastor but not an elder.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Wow a flurry of comments, thanks!

    Jo - thanks for the comment, on parenting I think its a team role, but that there are GENERALLY some differences. Might vary from couple to couple - but in my limited experience and study that difference is good. I think the eldership one is a great challenge - for me its a simple matter of obedience to the text - insofar as thats possible! As a valid challenge, its one that I'm still working out, so I'm afraid I can't say much else!

    Joshua - thought you might like it. The home is fascinating - its something I will not blog on till I've at least got married - otherwise its a bit academic. Hoping Amy might blog her thoughts - in the meantime we have talked about what we will both do, be responsible for etc. Childbearing is another issue...

    Anonymous - Elder and Pastor are words. At Trent we have 'pastors' for all sorts - some male, some female (youth, student, childrens, etc) - its a term for leader. I believe that in an eldership there should be a male lead elder - in my home church, CSBC, we call him the senior pastor as well. Hope that clears it up a bit.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No Creedy, it doesn't. This sentence is hugely confusing "I believe women can be pastors (but not elders)/vicars in their denomination, and preach, teach and perform leadership roles in the church - but the 'office' of elder is different. " Do you mean that a church has 1 elder, who is male because you believe the NT prescribes male headship but then women can preach, teach and perform leadership roles in the church? Oh and I'm not quite sure why you're separating the biblical term 'elder' from the Biblical term 'pastor'.

      Delete
    2. So I'm using the two words as meaning something different - though I realise that could be an issue. The denomination thing relates to the fact I'm non-denominational, which is the level at which things should be discussed imo

      Delete
    3. Since pastor (and, to a lesser extent, elder) has 1000 different meanings to 1000 different churches/deniminations, could you give YOUR definition of both terms. Would clarify things.
      Also- Could you outline you responses to the crits and passages usually thrown up at the view that women can preach to the body.

      Delete
    4. Johnny, thanks for the comment - my vagueness on this issue and impending mini-holiday mean I will write a post about my views on Church leadership, etc, on my return.

      Delete
  5. Very interesting :) Though I'm interested to know how you reconcile believing that women can be 'pastors' and preach/teach/be in leadership with 1 Timothy 2:12? Also I'm not convinced that the New Testament makes a distinction between pastors (shepherds) and elders (bishops). Most places refer to one or the other, not both as separate offices (like elder and deacon, which are two separate offices)?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think 1 Tim 2:12 is very contextual - as Jesus releases women to tell about the Gospel. Agree that the distinction is unbiblical - I'm trying to explain how Trent do it a bit...

      Delete
  6. Hi there, just wanted to further the comment someone else made about eldership/pastors. I don't really feel as though your explanation really got down to why women are unqualified for the position of elder?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. For me its as simple as the Text stating 'husband' - which must be a man.

      My comment about pastors has been flawed here - clearly I need to think about it more - but I would say that women can and sohuld be employed in roles at the church.

      Delete
    2. But 1 Tim 2 is grounded in creation, "for Adam was formed first, then Eve...". Clearly Women can tell others the gospel, as you mention it's woman who are the first witnesses of the resurection, clearly women can teach, "teach and admonish one another in all wisdom" (Colossians 3:16), women can speak publicly in Church (1 Corinthians 11:5). But there is a point at which women "have authority" by teaching as 1 Tim 2 says, which is wrong, and the public preaching of the word would seem to fall into that category to me.

      As for defining elder as only a man because the text reads 'husband', presumably that means that elders must be married?...

      If this is meant to clarify what your position on men and women in church creedy you're going to have to do a bit more clarifying.

      Delete
    3. I will do a bit more clarifying in a subsequent post.

      Regarding the foundation in creation, I think you have to decide for yourself - the results of creation being a secondary issue - whether preaching and teaching are the same - I think you might be making a distinction which Paul didn't.

      As I replied to Johnny, I'm plotting a folow up post for clarification on my clarification...

      Delete
  7. I feel that your argument of "only men can be husbands and fathers" is not really and explanation of roles. It is a label that only a male can hold, just as only a female can be a daughter/mother/wife. They are self explanatory. It's like saying "only a male can be a man." Obviously. The male gender is the basis of the label given, not the role the individual fulfills. However the label of man/husband/father or woman/wife/mother does not determine a person's personality or giftings which are (I believe) entirely unrelated to gender (a point I'm sure plenty would argue with) and thus the way one woman mothers will be entirely different to the way another fulfills said role.

    As for the issue of church eldership, I just feel it's a massive cop-out to say that a pastors wife should be equally involved as he is, so as to benefit from female as well as male perspective, just without the title. If both are involved, both should be recognised as elders. If you believe eldership to be a male role, then it should be exclusively such and women should not play a part (a view point you know I entirely disagree with). It feels at the moment that you believe the former but are rejecting it on technicality.

    Thank you for so concisely summarising the concept of submission in leadership (as this applies to all leadership roles). It is a wonderful thing of mystery and beauty when demonstrated, being so counter cultural as it is.

    I could write a lot more but those were my initial reactions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the comment Iona, I hope to address those sorts of things in my forthcoming post, for clarifying things further!

      Delete
  8. Lot of feedback Creedy. I know you'd write something that would grab people's attention. What are the stats for your blog like now? Spiked high?

    ReplyDelete

Hey! Thanks for commenting. I'll try to moderate it as soon as possible